Which is better? Plek robot or human hands? Add your comment at the end of the article…
Many people are aware that Gibson, Heritage and many other guitar manufactures are using the famed PLEK Machine to dress their factory guitar frets. This is supposed to be the great innovation for the guitar builder world. There are many opinions on the subject and I have a few of my own.
It’s worth mentioning that the Plek is known for its time saving abilities and I do believe it saves massive amounts of time for the manufacture when it comes to getting the job done. It can also hide problems which are not resolved on the actual fret board itself like humps or uneven board milling. It does this by dressing out the fret tops to be corrected and thus give the player the feel and play of a good fret board milling job. This is great for repairing a guitar that one would prefer not to tear all the frets out and correct the fret board irregularities by way of sanding and milling it down to the flat and correct radius.
But I take issue with the idea that this is the best most accurate work you can have done to your guitar. As a matter of fact, I have had the opposite result. I had taken a guitar to an authorized Plek shop owned by a guy named Rodney from a company called Fret Tech who was located at the time in Westwood CA which is in Los Angles. It was there where he proceed to take my guitars neck on and of several times to adjust the neck to what his machine told him was the correct level of relief. In doing this, that stripped out the screw holes which had to fix later. After several passes by the Pleck machine to evaluate the guitars fret work etc. he then turned on the magic program which was going to make the guitar play with less relief, faster, cleaner and without irregularities on the frets or any of the normal wear and tear issues which become problematic for players. Sadly the results were disastrous. So bad I was refunded the money for the work, they bought me a new neck and ultimately the new neck did not sound the same so I took the old neck and had it re-fretted by a professional guitar repair man who made it better then I had ever had it. That was done by a real person with his own hands.
Now I don’t expect this is the case for all Plek customers. I would expect that a machine that cost $100,000 will pay itself off in spades over time with the time it saves the users,mainly large manufactures. In most cases it probabbly does just that. It turnsns a job that done correctly would take hours to do, into a 15 min process. But even then, the frets are flat and ruff. They are not trimmed around the edges. The fine details that make an excellent guitar fret job are not able to be done by a Plek machine alone. This is at best, a time saving step if done correctly and in that case the details and crowing need to be done by a real person.
Ultimately, a Plek machine cannot play a guitar, only a real person can. It takes a person who will play and feel that instrument to be sure all those areas of concern are correctly addressed.
I agree. A PLEK machine is just a tool for a good guitar tech’s toolkit. A massive tool yes we can agree. Although I doubt anyone ever thought it was designed to be anything other than that. I don’t think the intention was to have the PLEK do all the work and have the human sit and enjoy coffee. If the person you take it to doesn’t see it this way and is under the spell that the PLEK machine can “do it all” then I would run away with my guitars as fast as I could. The PLEK machine was designed to make the guitar techs job much easier AND more accurate. Not replace the tech entirely. When used correctly a great tech and a great PLEK machine working together will produce results that cannot be beat. Yet…
With all due respect to the inventor and the people who bought one. An impressive machine, yes, but this is all a bunch of poppycock and hornswoggle! The evil CNC machines are destroying our craft.
It’s ugly and a slap in the face to luthiers of the old school who can make a guitar feel like butter with a sanding block, a 3 corner file and some steel wool… In about a half hour or less. (At risk of sounding arrogant; myself included)
As a professional luthier, in my humble opinion: A fret level and polish is standard practice, no big deal, about $100.00. Any experienced luthier will know if the frets are level or they’re not
For what it’s worth, my sanding block is much cheaper…
This is just another example of trying to use a piece of technology to substitute skill and craftsmanship.
The behaviour of strings has been well understood for a very long time , and most guitar players of any maturity well understand the compromise between playability and optomised action.
Putting this evaluation into the hands of a machine ,however well set and programmed ,is only part of the story.
Norlin thought they could get Industrial Engineers to make up a sequential process for making guitars when they took over Gibson at Kalamazoo…………..the result is legend……………another case of Economists
and Accountants understanding the costs but not necessarily ,the value.
Do yourself a favour,call a PLEK shop and get costs , then try to speak to the machine operator to understand if there is any flexibility in the set-up. You WILL,I think,seek out your skilled repairman before too long
Thanks for the insightful review. It was an eyeopener. I had often wondered what the hype was on those Plek machines.
Now I know.
It’s all hype.
I did a great deal of research and met with the Germans at our industry’s Trade Show (NAMM). I seriously considered purchasing a machine until I learned more about it. The Sales People and Techs of PLEK will tell you that the machine is only as good as your best luthier. The machine only does part of the job and is a real time saver when your making a thousand guitars a day. The machine is designed for a factory production line. If you get an existing guitar “Pleked,” The setup time really isn’t worth the cost of the machine. Existing guitars that need fret leveling, recrowning may have lose frets causing the uneven frets. The lose fret would have to be identified and glued down prior to the Plek process. Not worth the cost.
An experienced luthier specializing in fretwork can do the ENTIRE job form identifying neck/fret problems to final buffing for much less that getting a partial job done buy a Plek machine.
I’ve just had my Fender CS Masterbuilt Strat Plek’d to sort out some fretwear as part of a set-up. I’m no tech (in fact it was my ill-judged fumblings that necessitated the set-up!) but I am a player, and I just love the feel of the Plek’d frets- so smooth and even. I don’t think its intended to replace a good tech- its their job to set the guitar up, but in the knowledge that the frets and neck are optimised by the Plek. I’m sure a good tech could do it all, but not to the tolerances and minimised fret filing of the Plek. I was sufficiently impressed that I booked my other ‘main’ guitar straight in to the same shop in the UK. If it wasn’t good, I’m sure John Suhr wouldn’t have one!
That was a quality article,I recently subscribed to your rss feed.
I don’t think the Plek Machines were made to substitute the skilled luthiers working as independents. Their work is unique and necessary.
I think the Plek Machine was made to help the mass produced instruments. I am glad to see Plek Machines doing the job for Warwick/ Framus, for standard setups. They do not make mistakes, and they are not tired. And they work the same each day of the week.
I’ve seen many Instruments made with plek, and they all had a very well setup, way above average.
I love this video production. What camera did you use?
I think this technology is great for manufacturing purposes. Not just the time saved, but the consistency of the output. Especially when the same model of guitar will be continuously run thru the system. I also agree this would not be an advantage to “one of” jobs that luthiers might encounter. My Gibson 2010 Les Paul Traditional had been plek’ed and I really enjoy the way it plays.
I recently tried a cheap acoustic guitar set up with a plek machine. It had better playability than 4000 taylors and martins that I have played. Plek is definitely better than hand set ups.
“Rodney” had no idea what the heck he was doing. There are a couple of techs who own PLEK machines who view it as a profit center based on its reputation. There’s another guy in Sacramento like that, who does mediocre setups and charges big bucks for them because the PLEK was involved. Then there are the guys like Gary Brawer in San Francisco who are highly experienced techs who use the PLEK as part of their setup process and who produce amazing results.
And then there’s Gibson, who has a pair of PLEK machines mostly for marketing purposes; they’d received so much flak for their crappy fretwork that they decided to ride the reputation coat-tails of PLEK. Unfortunately, the way THEY use PLEK machines is not what they were designed for, and at the January NAMM convention there was a quiet meeting of techs and PLEK people over whether Gibson was actually RUINING the reputation of Plek for everyone else. FWIW and for those of you who haven’t been around a PLEK machine — the PLEK machine is, first of all, a neck analysis tool. It will tell you what the actual shape of the neck and the frets are. To do that, it needs the guitar strung under standard tension with the strings you intend to use. The results show up on a monitor, and an experienced tech looking at that monitor can make decisions in an informed manner.
Gibson, however, bolts an unfinished (as in NO FINISH on the guitar), naked (no hardware, either, nor strings) guitar onto a fixture that bends the neck and *simulates* string tension. It’s then thrust into the PLEK machine where the frets are simply milled to a default curve. By the time the guitar is painted and assembled, it’s changed so much that it’s as if it never had a fret job at all.
I have two guitars pleked at Gary’s shop, both fantastic. Two more are going up for the same work. Gary’s attention to detail both before and after the PLEK run makes all the difference.
And yes, while a PLEK machine can save a tech some time, there’s more — the PLEK machine is designed to produce a fret job that has the best possible outcome AND to remove the smallest possible amount of material while doing it. Certainly there are techs (and we’re talking few and far between) who do really good fretwork. In doing so, some of them can remove a LOT of the remaining fret to accomplish that. Big Difference…
My 34 four year old electric guitar is having a fret dress by a Plek machine. The shop that is doing it has been in business forever, and I was told that the Plek technician needs to be a very good luthier to understand and operate the machine. Being an engineer myself can relate to this; no matter what tools you have at your disposal, the end result is always dependant of the human input. Now, that the Plek is a very advanced machine that is doing to string instrument making what CNC machines did to the automative is something that no one should doubt, and obviously some people wil always do a better job than others even when they have the same tools at their disposal. The Plek is not replacing the luthier, but simply one more option to be considered…that’s all.
I had my Les Paul Pleked by Joe Glasier about 10 years ago and it was the best fret level I have ever had done to any of my guitars. That being said Joe was the first guy in the USA to get a Plek machine, and he is one of the best guitar repair guys in the country. Any one can press a button, but I still think it take a master craftsman to to good fret work regardless if it is done by hand or by Plek,
I have no direct experience with the machine, found this dialog doing my due diligence before shelling out the dough… but, I have heard from others that they got fantastic results. Regardless of the particular advantages of this machine, numerically controlled robots of all sorts are an inevitable progression in replacing hand work in all walks of life. If the Plek is not up to snuff, give it a couple years, or a competitor will solve their problems. It is sad in some ways, but the role of the craftsman is becoming diminished due these technologies. The guitars I bought as a kid were garbage, but even the cheapest guitars cut out by CNC mills have very good playability comparatively. Give it another 10 years and who knows what capabilities setup machines will have. The technician’s role will very likely be minimized IMO. All and all, I think this is a very good thing, as consistency and results will be higher accept where a master craftsman is involved. Remember John Henry. My main axe is a Parker Fly, and I doubt it would qualify for this treatment anyway.
I have experiences with Plek. Several of my guitar/basses have been plekked with good results. The main thing is with Plek, that this is very important, that it cuts down time. Also, being something of a luthier myself, Fret work is considered by most luthiers to be the least fun. You don’t really SEE the results as much as you do with great flame maple top, paint, lacquer and finishes. But you spend ample time on getting the fretwork right. It ain’t that fun crowning, filing, and buffing frets for hours on end.
I find it only important in busy shops, busy luthiers, or large manufactureres, where one can go along and do some other things on other guitars WHILE the machine is doing its thing on one guitar. The turnaround time, is scary! 15 minutes or soemthing. Yes, a skilled luthier can level frets with the same accuracy as a Plek machine, but how many hours can you charge for that, from the customers point of view? The hours go by, and you have to charge the customer for it, no matter what you’re doing to the guitar, let it be sanding, finishing, or fret work.
Also, I feel if you happen to have stainless steel frets…. well, I know of NO ONE in the luthier business that doesn’t want to hand over that one to the Plek machine. Also, levelling and fretting a compound radius neck can be a bit of a major chore for a luthiers hand, no matter how skilled. There, I think a Plek machine could do wonders. But I agree that it’s a pity that people think the PLek can do it MORE ACCURATELY than a human hand, from a very skilled luthier. Not so. It can only do it faster, and maybe to your exact specifications. Also, people think it’s doing wonders to intonation. False.
I have a Klein electric guitar, which I had SCANNED first, to see if it needed any Plekking. Not so. The scanning told the machine and us, that it’s already as perfect as it can be. Klein (or Lorenzo German) did really have their things down. At least the Swedish Guitarlabs where honest with their customers. But if you’re going to have it refretted or CHANGED it’s well worth checking out a Plek. It’s not that expensive compared to manual work. And remember, for any luthier, fret work just ain’t THAT fun. They’d rather do something else. I see Plek more of a time saver than anything else, really. A luthier that makes a guitar now and then has absolutely nothing to gain on this. Especially with this inital cost of the machine.
Of an anecdotal note: One of my Plekked acoustic Babicz guitars, which have this adjustable action necks, one can have the strings so low, that the strings buzzes equally across the neck. The buzz is more sounding like that of a SITAR. No need to buy a coral electric sitar or real sitar! The frets are so close and even along the neck so they even provide this “sitar” sound to it on all strings and notes. But then again, the sitar sounds wear off, after half an hour and then you want to go back playing regular guitar again. Just by raising the action on the neck a but. Nice NISCH feature or bonus, but really reveals how close and narrow tolerance a Plek can do to all frets at the same time.
I still don’t about this machine though, wheher it does a good job or not. It just sounds like the guy you took it to didn’t know what the hell he was doing or wasn’t very experienced with the machine. Or maybe he was just a moron. I don’t know but i will still give it a chance.
lookin two under stand more about cutting the ferts under standing when is a crush fert on the graf can anyone help me under stand it more i run a plek just learning it
The Stradivarius was made in a way and day of vary different climates. It was the best violin of that time. It was made by a man, who took great pride in his work. I think a computer could replicate that same work with the same conditions. In the end it must be quality checked by a human because after all computers are not! If I made Fenders or Gibson’s by computer(CNC) I would have people checking the process all along the way other wise it is just factory piece of crap. I don’t think it’s economical too have a guitar may by hand, not with 6+ billion people on the planet, ridiculous.
The Plek is not some godless mechanical replacement for a luthier (if you think it is, you’ve been watching too much of that Will Smith movie I, Robot). It’s another tool (albeit, a large tool with significant initial capital investment) to be used by a good technician. The Plek performs analysis and through CNC can make cuts to frets that would be extremely time-consuming, if not impossible, for a human to make, and like others have said, it does so without getting tired or needing lots of cigarette breaks. Once the frets have been cut, though, the luthier still needs all of his skills to perform the setup thereafter.
My guitars have been plek’d at the Music Gallery in Highland Park, IL, and compared to traditional non-plek’d setups, there is no comparison.
I just took the plunge and had my favorite Jazz PLEK’d by Mike Lull in Bellevue, WA.
I could not be happier with the way the bass plays. It was no slouch before, but the change is quantifiable. Absolutely worth every nickle it cost to get the job done. It now plays how Leo wanted it to.
EP - so you are happy with the Highland Park setup? Which service did you choose and what kind of guitar? I have a PC-1 Jackson that needs a once over.
I agree with Luke “A PLEK machine is just a tool for a good guitar tech’s toolkit”
I just got my guitar (LP junior) back from a plek set-up and couldn’t be happier with the result. Firstly the neck needed to be adjusted, the bridge needed adjustment and finally the nut needed to be filed at the high E position, NONE OF WHICH the Plek machine did, my tech did all that, then the plek finished the job, frets were then finished with steel wool by hand. So there you go, my Tele will be going in next to get the same treatment.
FWIW: Slashes’ guitar was pleked by said machine when he was in Oz recently, I figured if it’s good enough for Slash, it’s good enough for me!
I had my ‘72 Gretsch Super Chet PLEK’d at Norman Music in Norman, OK. The guitar neck was hard to handle before the PLEK job, but now it plays like butter. No complaints from me.
I recently played a Plek’d Les Paul at Gibson and yes obviously while the frets were polished and finished by hand, the Plek machine did a great job - but the action was far higher that my own guitar. I’d be interested to know how close it could actually make the action - but full finishing has to be also done by hand as well.
for a $100,000 machine it seems right in a factory - wrong in the shop of a skilled craftsman. After all, even after buying a Plek’d guitar, i’d still want the set up more for my own feel and playing style.
At the same time - Gibson had to do something because the out of the factory setup in the early 2000’s was a very hit and miss affair
Upon several occasions, I have corrected what the supposedsly ” infallible ” Plek machine missed. If you’d like to see those examples in greater detail, go to my sight and I’ll give a step-by-step pictorial / tutorial.
I find it mind-boggling that anyone would buy into the idea of dropping $100,000 on a “one trick pony ” that doesn’t even manage to successfully complete the one task it was designed to do ??!!
Respectfully and truthfully,
Michael
I worked with a guy who had an ovation acoustic with a horrible action. he took it to philtone and had it plek’d, and I couldn’t believe the drastic difference it made. Keep in mind, Phil is an experienced Luthier, but I have never witnessed such a huge difference after taking a guitar in for a setup. It was nothing short of a miracle. I am sold on the technology in the hands of someone that knows how to use it. Machines will always be more accurate and reliable than humans, sorry all you old school dudes…