How to identify an original 18w bluesbreaker.

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How to identify an original 18w bluesbreaker.

Postby silverface82 on Sun Jul 02, 2017 5:11 pm

This is my explanation check it out...tell me what you think...please post any questions and correct me if i'm wrong.
Thank you,
https://youtu.be/FGc2_EHAT_A
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Re: How to identify an original 18w bluesbreaker.

Postby chard on Sun Jul 02, 2017 9:17 pm

Looks quite different to mine.
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Re: How to identify an original 18w bluesbreaker.

Postby silverface82 on Mon Jul 03, 2017 10:57 am

chard wrote:Looks quite different to mine.

I have never seen two that were identical...If you want to post pics of your amp I may use them in my future videos!
Also I encourage anyone else to do so.
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Re: How to identify an original 18w bluesbreaker.

Postby LD50 on Mon Jul 03, 2017 11:05 am

There are too many red flags on the amp in the video to pass it as entirely original (notwithstanding the 'service' replacement parts).

Publishing details of precise details on line makes fakery easier I am afraid, but this video is safe in that respect :wink:
All bleeding stops.......eventually.
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Re: How to identify an original 18w bluesbreaker.

Postby Ned B on Mon Jul 03, 2017 1:29 pm

As thorough as that video attempted to be it didn't lay the questions to rest for me. The general impression I get is the later cosmetic features such as the late '67 tolex which is called "green" is not the same as what the early catalogues listed as "grey" and very distinguishable. When Marshall transitioned to the 20W there were some interesting amps. I have seen local to me has a pinstripe 2X2 20W that has these later features. It is pretty accepted that there were pinstripe 20 waters. Just that alone stands in my the way of being 100% certain of what this amp started out as. I'm not saying it's not real and it is probably a great amp to have for playing over collecting. BTW that handle is from '69.
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Re: How to identify an original 18w bluesbreaker.

Postby BygoneTones on Mon Jul 03, 2017 3:23 pm

I can't understand your motivation for posting this video unless you are selling lash-ups yourself. Its the only explanation I can think of.
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Re: How to identify an original 18w bluesbreaker.

Postby silverface82 on Mon Jul 03, 2017 11:02 pm

Thanks for all your interest and replies!
As far as Ned B's concerns of this possibly being a latter amp.
You are not alone as someone quite a bit higher up in the amp world than me tends to think in a similar way.
Not an exact quote...a lot of these amps are not as old as some people believe them to be.
Of course this was not based on the tolex rather the pots that date to 1968.
Really it is the only tru remaining mistery of this amp...at least for me anyway.
This does not concern me at this point because either way if it was service or original,.
It would not effect the value when you consider another one of the pots is already changed.
And as far as that pot goes, really I don't recognize the pot or the code? That is also just what I was told
by higher authorities.

Regretfully, I don't know everything.
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Re: How to identify an original 18w bluesbreaker.

Postby silverface82 on Mon Jul 03, 2017 11:29 pm

Regarding,
Bygone tones understanding of my motives.
First off it is an honor to have a reply from bygone tones.
Secondly it is also a great honor to own a pinstripe bluesbreaker.
These are amps I have searched a good portion of my life for.
And after owning one I thought quite possibly a lifetime could pass me by before ever having the opportunity to have another.
When I first saw this amp for sale, I almost jumped putting my head through the roof of my small trailer.
I feel that it is my responsibility to share these amps in any and every way with anyone online that may not be as fortunate as me to own one.
Before I die possibly be able to sell this amp for close to what its worth by helping everyone that doesn't understand.
I to had similar concerns of it being real and I know the feeling.
For many reasons when I first got it and I saw how much it had been cleaned as well as how many parts were changed.
What really set my mind at ease was when I removed the baffle. I witnessed what temperature changes of the amp being tuned on time and time again for 50 years.It had a condensational effect on the staples on the baffle there was a fade of slight rust at the bottom that became much more apparent towards the top. Because that is where most of the heat had taken its toll (on the condensation effect). See when a cold staple is introduced to the heat of the amp it does just like a cold aluminum can you just pulled out of the fridge that is being introduced to the heat of just natural room temperatures. It condensates making it wet on the surface. In turn then causing it to rust. :D
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Re: How to identify an original 18w bluesbreaker.

Postby Luke Gibson on Tue Jul 04, 2017 8:21 pm

Funny, I returned this amplifier to a certain dealer in Minnesota because it was a fake..... I guess this is your way to try to make it legit?
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Re: How to identify an original 18w bluesbreaker.

Postby silverface82 on Wed Jul 05, 2017 1:26 am

I'm sorry you couldn't see past all the replaced parts?
This however, is in no way an attempt to restore this amp back to original specifications.
I have already done that on some level with my 1968 conversion.
That was well worthy of doing so.
This is a whole different animal....
Don't you think for one minute that I couldn't put era correct proper specification (speaker pots and caps) back in the amp.
What we have here is a very long trail of repairs that actually help to identify this amp to have lived through those decades!
Not to mention the sound, I really have not heard another small amp with such clean bottom!
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Re: How to identify an original 18w bluesbreaker.

Postby tommie on Wed Jul 05, 2017 10:23 am

What you're not understanding is that the typical fakes out there are based on normally later amps, like a 20 watter, whose innards are harvested to make a copy of an18 watt amp. Much of the parts these fakers use are from other Marshalls, so appear to be period correct but are often out by a year or two, the end result is a mish mash of parts with inconsistent date codes, which is put down to past maintenance.

I'm afraid this 18 watt combo you're putting up as an example of an original amp to help guide future buyers, plus the JTM MKIV Bluesbreaker discussed at length on another thread are chock full of inconsistencies and are almost perfect examples of what to avoid!

And that stuff you're theorising about condensation of staples and so on is just ridiculous.

You've had it pointed out endless times that these amps of yours have serious originality problems, but I don't think you're listening.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
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Re: How to identify an original 18w bluesbreaker.

Postby Ned B on Wed Jul 05, 2017 1:05 pm

Tommie and I share a lessoned learned on this subject. Now that a certain MN dealer is mentioned as involved with this amp the likelihood of this amp having spent time in a certain northern English town is high. I have been through this. It cost money undoing the deal. When it comes to the high value vintage Marshalls there are many fakes out there and a high probability you will encounter at least one. For you, you seem to like your amp, are not trying to sell it, so just leave it there. I'm sure it is hard to be objective in this situation, but amps just don't have replaced parts to this degree because of failure. I know this from experience.
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Re: How to identify an original 18w bluesbreaker.

Postby BygoneTones on Wed Jul 05, 2017 6:22 pm

You are a con artist.

Sorry you bought this amp and fell for this trick, but going to all this effort making a youtube video, deleting all the comments about it being a fake, then re-selling it for 30,000 to somebody else, makes you no better than the original crook that sold it to you. Take it back to where you got it and demand your money back. Get the police involved if necessary. You got conned, that doesn't mean its OK to wash your hands of it by conning someone else.

If you want to learn about vintage Marshall gear you do not need to spend this kind of money. Start with the cheap stuff, old PA cabs, cheap amps etc. Get your hands dirty, strip them down and restore them. That's how you learn what's original and what's not. Then when the big money amp eventually comes along you are already knowledgable about all the tiny details that you can use to authenticate it.
Last edited by BygoneTones on Fri Jul 07, 2017 1:33 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: How to identify an original 18w bluesbreaker.

Postby Banker on Wed Jul 05, 2017 6:46 pm

It's the poster-child for fake 18w amps.

I thought Brian was being a little harsh, until I realised that the Silverface82 now has it up for sale at $30k. I now agree wholeheartedly, he's a con-man.
When only pinstripe will do.
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Re: How to identify an original 18w bluesbreaker.

Postby Luke Gibson on Wed Jul 12, 2017 10:44 pm

I actually still have the other speaker if you're interested, it had a rub and I sent it back to S@!*#B@$% Guitar for repair. You're welcome to it for 4K It has matching label and date code.....
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