'61 Bandmaster questions

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'61 Bandmaster questions

Postby lizard king on Wed Mar 04, 2015 2:12 pm

The head is still at the tech's shop for a going over. Someone had pulled the baffle & put in a 2x12 baffle. I'm in the process of restoring the original tone ring.

I've seen dozens of threads on various chat boards but so far no measured layouts of the baffle dimensions. However I think I can piece that together. They had also pulled of the stiffener boards from the back and, after apparently dropping copious amounts of LSD, decided to paint the back black. I don't know, maybe they saw a red door and wanted to paint it black. Fortunately they ran out of paint before they could destroy the entire cabinet.

I'm guessing at the width of the stiffener boards but probably not critical. My biggest question, if I can't find a detailed layout, is what speaker(s) would've come standard on a single 12 tone ring Bandmaster cab? I've seen JBL & Jensen's but am not sure what would've come from the factory. The destroyer of cabinets who had it put in two 12" Eminence - a Patriot and a Man of War. I have a couple old no-name alnico speakers from that era. I'll probably load one of those until I learn more information.

Thanks...GREAT forum.
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Re: '61 Bandmaster questions

Postby Baron Von Machinenmann on Wed Mar 04, 2015 5:33 pm

Most likely an Oxford, don't know if Jensens were available that year as a factory upgrade....
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Re: '61 Bandmaster questions

Postby slider313 on Thu Mar 05, 2015 2:49 pm

It would depend on how early in '61. My Sept. '61 brown Deluxe came with an original late 1960 Jensen P12R, where my December '61 Vibrolux has an Oxford 12K5-1. From what I know, Jensen's were stock and not an upgrade. JBL's were considered an upgrade yet, I believe, they came stock in the 1959 brown Vibrasonic 5G13.
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Re: '61 Bandmaster questions

Postby lizard king on Thu Mar 05, 2015 3:12 pm

thanks slider. I picked up a couple reconed speakers that look similar to P12R's. I can't imagine not blowing one of those up with 40 watts....guess I won't turn it to 10.
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Re: '61 Bandmaster questions

Postby slider313 on Thu Mar 05, 2015 3:37 pm

You'll blow a P12R, even a recone. Remember, blowing a speaker could short your output transformer. If its my amp, and I'm using a closed back cabinet, I would buy a Weber 12F150T; 50 watt, light doping on the surround and have them break it in at the shop.

I had them recone a 1961 Jensen organ pull C12P with that cone.

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Re: '61 Bandmaster questions

Postby JeffH on Sun Mar 08, 2015 1:04 pm

Here's a tone ring Bandmaster cab I used to have. The speaker pictured is a non-original '67 Oxford 12T6. I thought I actually had some measurements I took before I sold the cab, but I can't find them - sorry. If I locate them, I will post.

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Re: '61 Bandmaster questions

Postby spoond on Fri Mar 13, 2015 5:28 pm

I have seen a few early '61 Bandmaster 1 x 12 tone ring cabs with the little square silver/blue tag Jensen C12N as the original speaker. Later in '61, Fender used the Oxford 12K5-1, which was more common I think. The 1 x 12 cab was a little smaller (21 x 30) than the 2 x 12 Bandmaster cab (21 x 32) and it didn't have a center divider.

I suspect that Fender used a P12N in the earliest Blonde Bandmasters, but I've never seen one factory original. However, the earliest blonde 6G9-A Tremoluxes came with a P10Q in the tone ring, and they sound great. There's a breathiness and clarity that is almost divine.

So I say look for a '61 P12N to mount in that tone ring Bandmaster cab, it would hold up and sound great.

And it would be nice to see some photos of the head and cab so post what you got if you can figure it out.
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Re: '61 Bandmaster questions

Postby ek1949 on Tue Sep 22, 2015 3:11 pm

I have a new 1 12" tone ring cab based on the Bandmaster, and it's 30x20x11. For speakers I've used a Utah MI 12 PXC a speaker Fender used in later (late '60s-early 70s) 2-12 Bassman/Bandmaster cabs. It sounds very good. The other speaker I've used is a JBL D123. It sounds out of this world. It can't handle much power, though. The ideal speaker for this cab is probably a D120.
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Re: '61 Bandmaster questions

Postby Mitch Roberts on Mon Nov 09, 2015 1:01 pm

FYI, here's what the old Fender Field Guide website has on the Bandmaster Tone Ring cab:

61: Ported "tone ring", 21" x 30" x 11½" (53.3 x 76.2 x 29.2 cm)

If you make a new baffle, just take some measurements of the opening and subtract just enough to allow for the grill cloth to wrap around the edges. Someone like Larry Rogers with loads of cabinet making experience would be able to confirm exact dimensions. Maybe just have him make it for you? I don't think just a baffle would cost that much, and he'd get the grill cloth on there perfect, and aged if you want.

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Re: '61 Bandmaster questions

Postby Dean Jr. on Tue Nov 10, 2015 9:05 pm

vintage P12N is a 20-25 watt speaker...bit light, imho, for that BAndmaster. IF I wanted a classic Jensen ceramic sound, I would go with a mid-'60's Jensen C12N...or the WEber 12F150. IF I thought I wanted an Alnico sound???? I would use an Altec Lansing 417A,B or C.
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Re: '61 Bandmaster questions

Postby glowplug on Wed Jan 13, 2016 7:56 pm

My understanding is that the Fender "tone ring" cabs were designed by JBL to support their speakers in the shallow cabinets Fender made from stock 12" pine (more like 11 5/8" when sold). The back pressure is phase corrected and exits the box with the front radiated sound to produce a volume closer to having two speakers. Building the somewhat complex baffles and back proved to be too costly for Fender and they switched over to dual speaker cabinets and stopped producing the tone ring style. Given that the speaker's free air resonance is important in designing any type of porting system, the tone ring cabinets will most likely work best with JBLs or equivalents.
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Re: '61 Bandmaster questions

Postby spoond on Mon Jan 25, 2016 7:15 pm

A vintage P12N or a P12Q will sound great in a 6G7 Bandmaster. The wattage ratings on those speakers were for paper voice coil formers attached with hide glue. Nowadays we use Nomex formers and cement glue, and a reconed P12N will easily handle 50 watts. If it's an original cone the voice coil will start rubbing, so you will need to have it reconed. A C12N or an Oxford ceramic will work fine, but I would want that amp with the Jensen Alnico sound.
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Re: '61 Bandmaster questions

Postby ek1949 on Wed Mar 09, 2016 7:45 pm

For new alnico speaker options I'd consider a Weber Cali or Chicago, maybe a Jensen Tornado if a neo is acceptable. I wish I had an Italian C12N to try, just based on internet listenage I get the impression that it's the best of the current lineup.
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