Brown Super Qs ...

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Brown Super Qs ...

Postby TheGuitarFairy on Wed Feb 17, 2016 4:31 pm

howdy friends,

I've read some incredibly informative and thoughtful posts here re- brown supers and was hoping you guys could help me out.

i recently picked up this 6G4A super ... i'm a big Q / Big Al fan so i'm pretty psyched : )

as you can see in pics amp has has many Cs and Rs replaced. OT has been replaced w/ a NSC022848 REV A 238-9526 (New Sensor Corp/Schumacher 4-ohm 35W Pro OT). I put a pair of Celestion Golds in the thing but am also waiting on a pair of 10a125s.

just for some background i'm 51 (today actually) and gig a lot, as in 15-25 nights per mo. downstairs in studio, amp sounds very sweet and reedy ... on the bandstand however amp sounds hollow, boomy, punchy and loud as F (my ears are junque, as i type this morning). this is in either channel (i prefer "normal") and always w/ bass OFF.

where should i be looking to remedy this situation? i've read where tone stacks were all over the map? what about putting more of a direct copy of Triad or Schumacher 45216 OT in there? bias? obviously i'm hoping 10a125s will sound better to me.

any suggestions/observations would be greatly appreciated!

thank you and bestest regards,
mike
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Re: Brown Super Qs ...

Postby Gasstationman on Wed Feb 17, 2016 10:06 pm

Boomy punchy and loud as hell is probably overhearing between cables that is near to cause oscillation. I had same problem in my Super (and I have had similar problems in many older Fender amps) and I separated the "cablegroups" behind the potentiometers and the problem was gone.
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Re: Brown Super Qs ...

Postby OldSchoolDave on Thu Feb 18, 2016 1:55 am

Welcome and Happy Birthday!

I can't provide definitive info on the speaker combination, as my '62 Super resides in a slightly-too-wide repro cab w/ 2 x 12" Norelco Alnicos. Now, it's nice and swampy - just what I was looking for out of it.

Backing off the bass in a band situation sounds fairly normal. Do you have other speaker cabinets you could try?

I'm not a fan of Orange Drops and the Blue Moldeds they replaced rarely go bad (the yellow Astrons can drift with age). Anyway, if it were my amp, I'd budget for some quality replacement caps.

I see JJ's in the output sockets. What other tubes are you running?

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Re: Brown Super Qs ...

Postby TheGuitarFairy on Thu Feb 18, 2016 2:40 am

thanks for comebacks, fellas.

my instincts tell me amp is running "fine" ... i suspect what i'm experiencing on gigs is mostly my own subjective dissatisfaction that amp doesn't sound <better to me>.

i might have been exaggerating to make a point ... not about the "loud as f" part, ha! amp is really loud. but its not like amp sounds like total ass or anything, it's just very punchy/glassy and even in "normal" channel too scooped for my taste.

tubes are a hodgepodge of old u.s. stuff and JJs ... waiting on a pair of 10a125s. <in my experience>, ordinarily, i don't hear the kinds of changes, swapping tubes, that i'm looking for here. thats just my experience. the tubes that are in there are solid and not microphonic or anything.

best regards to all,
mike
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Re: Brown Super Qs ...

Postby stratele52 on Thu Feb 18, 2016 9:40 am

Are caps and resistors are the original and right values ? No mods ?
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Re: Brown Super Qs ...

Postby TheGuitarFairy on Thu Feb 18, 2016 9:12 pm

i honestly don't know if there have been any mods to amp tho i suspect no.
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Re: Brown Super Qs ...

Postby stratele52 on Thu Feb 18, 2016 10:05 pm

TheGuitarFairy wrote:i honestly don't know if there have been any mods to amp tho i suspect no.


First thing to check if you don't like how it sound. There is so many non original looking parts.
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Re: Brown Super Qs ...

Postby Dean Jr. on Thu Feb 18, 2016 10:11 pm

The tone caps appear to be of original values. so do the plate resistors. Hard to check it all from here. What cannot be checked from here are voltages and biasing measurements. Tech time, imho. I prefer to know what all of my amps are doing regarding voltages and biasing...whether they sound like I want them to or not....maybe especially if they sound like I want them to. One always wants to be able to get back to that point if something changes in the future. Baseline and all of that, right?
One wonders what amps you have been playing that are not mid-scooped that you like. ?? There are changes to that circuit that can bring more mids in to the signal...if that is what one wants. Since the original tone caps are not there, this amp is ripe for mods if one wanted a player amp to do what they wanted it to do. These big 6G amps were the first to have this type of topography.....and this topography led to the BF Fenders. Tweeds these amps are not.
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Re: Brown Super Qs ...

Postby drewleslie on Sat Feb 20, 2016 1:25 pm

The golds are great speakers but may be way overly bright and loud in a brown super ... you'll be more happy with the 10A125's once they break in. Tone stacks in browns can be a bit of a challenge dialing in too ... very interactive. drew
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Re: Brown Super Qs ...

Postby stratele52 on Sat Feb 20, 2016 1:55 pm

drewleslie wrote:The golds are great speakers but may be way overly bright and loud in a brown super ... you'll be more happy with the 10A125's once they break in. Tone stacks in browns can be a bit of a challenge dialing in too ... very interactive. drew



I have a friend who bought one Gold few weeks ago ( Two Rock cab $$$) the break-in is not finish , but he don't like it . He have a lot of "high end " vintage speakers and do lots of A/B test.
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Re: Brown Super Qs ...

Postby Smolder on Sat Feb 20, 2016 3:35 pm

Boomy with golds? Try getting the amp off of the floor.
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Re: Brown Super Qs ...

Postby stratele52 on Sat Feb 20, 2016 3:44 pm

About what he hear ;

Google Celestion Gold/ fart .

Celestion Gold/ fizzy
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Re: Brown Super Qs ...

Postby TheGuitarFairy on Sat Feb 20, 2016 5:23 pm

one of my busiest amps is a bone stock 68' princeton reverb w a gold. it sounds delicious clean and pushed hard. i <love> that speaker in that amp.

i really appreciate the help and its tough <talking> about tone, sometimes. the golds in the super can't be helping the volume situation and its not an abundance of highs that are bugging me ... maybe I'm just looking for a lil more gain out of amp but can't get there cause by time you do so its too loud? I've read where 10a125s are also pretty loud speakers?

i very often do have my princeton or deluxe off the floor and did this one too, last week on a job but amp is so loud, who wants that closer head?

once i get 10a125s in there for better or worse, i'll bring it to my techs place and we'll look at amp in detail.

i'm curious to see where amp is biased, tone stack configuration too. my tech also seems to feel OT thats in there could also b conspiring to make amp loud, clean and punchy.

best to the board!
m
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Re: Brown Super Qs ...

Postby stratele52 on Sat Feb 20, 2016 7:21 pm

Do you use some overdrive or boost pedal with your Golds ?
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Re: Brown Super Qs ...

Postby TheGuitarFairy on Sat Feb 20, 2016 11:47 pm

OD sometimes, sure. depends on the gig ... but i love the sound of a good amp overdriving. imo the golds sound equally satisfying at low volumes and when pushed hard. the super does sound pretty badass when you push it, it's just too loud.
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