1960 Concert - interesting discovery and some advice

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1960 Concert - interesting discovery and some advice

Postby transmaniacon on Tue Feb 21, 2017 5:32 pm

A couple of years ago I found a beautiful '60 Concert. I've used it sparingly because I could never dial out its piercing upper-mids without an EQ pedal. Lowering the voltage with an Amp Maniac certainly helped, but still not enough. After comparing it with the existing G12 and G12-A schematics I've discovered it's an interesting one-off that doesn't match either schematic (different value Astron caps and some things wired differently).
Last week I hooked it up up to a reissue Fender Reverb unit and wow....all the shrillness is gone like magic! I'd heard of a reverb unit boosting the signal a little, but never heard of one smoothing out an amp. It even does it when the reverb is switched off. The Concert is definitely usable now! It may turn out to be my favorite blues tone, even over my '60 Bassman. I was going to rebuild the reverb unit with tagboard components but now I'm hesitant to touch it.
It's still picky when it comes to overdrive pedals, though. Another strange but pleasing thing: it puts out a bass response that shakes the floor and rattles the dishes but never farts out the speakers. A very interesting amp indeed.
If you have a brown Fender, I definitely recommend trying it out with a Fender Reverb unit hooked up.
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Re: 1960 Concert - interesting discovery and some advice

Postby pdf64 on Tue Feb 21, 2017 6:43 pm

Just to note that I don't see that it's feasible that a 63 Reverb can add (voltage) gain to the dry signal path http://schems.com/schematicheaven.net/m ... manual.pdf

The dry signal high frequency response will tend to be rolled off / attenuated at high mixer settings, due to
a/ the low pass filter formed by R18 the mixer track resistance and the (external) capacitance of the connecting lead.
b/ the low pass filter formed by R18 the mixer track resistance, reverb coupling cap C10, and the effective impedance to 0V at the tone control wiper (which will vary according the control setting).
My band:-http://www.youtube.com/user/RedwingBand
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Re: 1960 Concert - interesting discovery and some advice

Postby transmaniacon on Tue Feb 21, 2017 7:33 pm

That's what I said, in my roundabout way. Let me phrase it differently: "Some people on the internet mistakenly claim that a reverb unit boosts the signal a little, but it actually smoothed out my amp." It took away the shrill high mids but didn't seem to affect amp volume much.
Interestingly it doesn't change the tone of my '60 tweed Bassman as noticeably.
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Re: 1960 Concert - interesting discovery and some advice

Postby drewleslie on Wed Feb 22, 2017 1:13 pm

On 6-pre tube 1960 browns, if you look at the bass pot and pull a leg on this cap you will get an increase in volume and loss of the shrillness. drew

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Re: 1960 Concert - interesting discovery and some advice

Postby transmaniacon on Wed Feb 22, 2017 5:18 pm

Interesting. I'll try this. Thanks, Drew.
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Re: 1960 Concert - interesting discovery and some advice

Postby transmaniacon on Tue Mar 07, 2017 12:15 am

Here's what's wired up to my bass pot. I'm confused! What am I supposed to disconnect?

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Re: 1960 Concert - interesting discovery and some advice

Postby drewleslie on Tue Mar 07, 2017 1:44 pm

The larger cap from center to left post on pot. Values and types of caps did vary. drew
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Re: 1960 Concert - interesting discovery and some advice

Postby transmaniacon on Thu Mar 09, 2017 6:27 pm

Wow drewleslie that did the trick! Man I appreciate your telling me about this. Here's a mic check I did with the Concert after the mod.

https://youtu.be/pBfRCCY0KNU
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Re: 1960 Concert - interesting discovery and some advice

Postby drewleslie on Sat Mar 11, 2017 1:10 pm

:cheers:
How can you tell the difference between a chemist and a plumber? Ask them to pronounce 'unionized'.
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Re: 1960 Concert - interesting discovery and some advice

Postby Naked Clarke on Sun Mar 12, 2017 9:20 pm

transmaniacon wrote:Wow drewleslie that did the trick! Man I appreciate your telling me about this. Here's a mic check I did with the Concert after the mod. https://youtu.be/pBfRCCY0KNU


Nice amp and playing Jeff. I opened up my "JK" November 1960 6G12-A and the bass pots only have the one 6800 resistor. No caps. It did inspire me to go ahead and do the full electrolytic cap job last evening that I had been putting off. The main caps under the dog house date to the 4th week of 1960 and had started to bubble so it was time.
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Re: 1960 Concert - interesting discovery and some advice

Postby drewleslie on Mon Mar 13, 2017 1:09 pm

My Nov 1960 Concert. The lighter tan colored tolex is peculiar to Nov 1960, I believe. See second pic for comparison of various brown series amp tolex colors. Left to right: '62 Vibrolux; November '60 Concert; '60 Pro; 60 super after black paint removed.

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Re: 1960 Concert - interesting discovery and some advice

Postby transmaniacon on Mon Mar 13, 2017 5:26 pm

Thanks! And beautiful amps! Mine's an April, 1960. It has a funky color to the tolex but it's not as pink. The differences in the brown amps is interesting. I wish I could find some more of them!
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Re: 1960 Concert - interesting discovery and some advice

Postby Dean Jr. on Tue Mar 14, 2017 7:23 pm

drewleslie, isn't that what is referred to as the 'pink' tolex?
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Re: 1960 Concert - interesting discovery and some advice

Postby transmaniacon on Wed Mar 15, 2017 2:38 am

It is indeed
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Re: 1960 Concert - interesting discovery and some advice

Postby drewleslie on Wed Mar 15, 2017 12:50 pm

As I understand it, the pink tolex is the early brown tolex like on on the '60 super and pro in my pic (far right), the darker brown is on the '62 vibrolux (left). The light tan on the concert was only done in one month, Nov in 1960 (it is darker and a different hue than the cream tolex on blonde bassman heads etc). Under the bassman is a super cabinet with new production brown tolex. My pics are a bit reddish due to early morning sun and a weak flash but show the relative differences. I'm sure CV and Spoond will chime in soon and school me. drew

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