New Host, Founding Father of Marshall!!!!

Hosted by Marshall Founding Father G3SDW. Discuss JTM45, JTM50, JTM100, Bluesbreaker, Super Lead, Super Bass, 200W, 100W, 50W, 20W, Plexi Panels, Metal Panels, 4x12 straight, 4x12 slant, Pinstripe, Basketweave, Checkerboard, Park, Kitchen-Marshall and Narb

Re: New Host, Founding Father of Marshall!!!!

Postby cubo on Thu Oct 15, 2009 2:20 pm

And also question of me as a marshall enthusiast...
What do you think of modern marshalls? Do you think they have something in common with the first ones, or is it something absolutely different? Modern I mean those from 1980 onwards.
Thanks
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Re: New Host, Founding Father of Marshall!!!!

Postby G3SDW on Thu Oct 15, 2009 2:55 pm

Well it is like Vinyl records and CD`s technology is a great thing but some times you can be to perfect if that is at all posible , a little hum and the odd crackle and a bit of hiss somehow gave the early Marshall some sort of image. I still think they are great but considering that the old early 60`s amps are still around then you have to ask yourself the question will the new ones stand the test of time who knows, but somehow i don`t think so.

Ken
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Re: New Host, Founding Father of Marshall!!!!

Postby lexicondevil on Thu Oct 15, 2009 8:30 pm

Dick Dackray wrote:I have a 1978 Marshall 100 watt Lead Master Volume 2-12 combo amp that I purchased new. It has the original red (burgandy) speakers in it that say on the back CUSTOM MADE FOR MARSHALL. The amp is in as new condition and is all original.

Ken, can you tell me what make of speakers these are? Someone told me some time back that they might be Goodmans. I can not find any information on this at all. Sure would like to know if they are any good or if I would be better off to put a couple of Celestions in.

Regards


My '78 C&C Marshall had a pair of these in them. I have heard variously that they were McKenzies, as well as one of Celestion's first attempts at making a high output G frame speaker for guitars. In 1978 and 1979, Marshall started using brands of speakers other than Celestion due to the fact that Celestion didn't have high power speakers available for the 100 watt 1x12 and 2x12 combo amps.

I've heard mention of the fact that these speakers were McKenzies, but I remember them as having the exact same frame as well as the black plastic magnet cover that Celestion was using at the time, so I am partly inclined to believe that they were indeed Celestions. Your speakers should also have vented aluminum dust caps as well.

As far as the tonality of the speakers is concerned, they didn't have much breakup, and had harsh HF response, (I attribute this to the aluminum dust caps) but they conuld move some serious air. --Not a bad sounding speaker at all, save for the harsh sounding HF.

Also Ken, I would like to thank you for giving us insight into what working with Marshall was like back in the early days.
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Re: New Host, Founding Father of Marshall!!!!

Postby tommie on Sat Oct 24, 2009 2:47 pm

Ken/Gentlemen,

Let's open the discussion on this...

http://www.vintagerentals.com/html/prototype_jtm-45.html
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Re: New Host, Founding Father of Marshall!!!!

Postby G3SDW on Sat Oct 24, 2009 5:31 pm

Pictures are not to good but from what i can see the amp looks in a bit of a state a few non standard parts, odd tube bases etc,let some of you guys pull it to pieces first but will watch with great interest.

Thanks Tommy for this one, hope you are well and plenty of gigs

Ken
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Re: New Host, Founding Father of Marshall!!!!

Postby plen on Sun Oct 25, 2009 2:26 am

g3sdw do you mean the tube bases are straight across instead of diagonal i have an old clone amp with the valve bases the same. did any of the prototype amps have the bases straight across marshallhttp://www.vintageamps.com/plex ... 4e8e83f277

thanks peter.
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Re: New Host, Founding Father of Marshall!!!!

Postby G3SDW on Sun Oct 25, 2009 8:02 am

Hi Peter, no if you look at the output tube bases you will see that one is black plastic and the other is white ceramic.

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Re: New Host, Founding Father of Marshall!!!!

Postby tommie on Sun Oct 25, 2009 12:53 pm

I see a few things of note:

The straight fitted power valve bases.
The chassis corner pieces are way too small to house a tee nut, so the amp has wood screwed to each end to allow it to be anchored in the cab.
The board seems to have the big grey capacitors on it, and is laid out like a regular early Marshall at the bias circuit end, as opposed to the Bassman layout of the Marshall Prototype.
Input spacing matches the first few production amps which normally have a thick aluminium or sandwich panel, but there seems to be no panel on here, and going by the lack of polarity switch/hole probably never had a panel.
That headbox is like nothing else I've ever seen dimension-wise JTM. It's like a first issue 100W box but really narrow. I can't see what it's covered in and the seller says it's made of particleboard (I assume that's what us Brits call chipboard?)
The parts are mainly RS through and through, knobs seem to be later Marshall ones, pilot lamp is massive and seems to be missing it's screw in lens.

It certainly has a lot of Marshall hallmarks to support it being a very early example, but I'd be keen to see what you make of the wood strips affixed to the ends and that unusually sized cabinet, Ken, as they're probably the most strange features. Do you recollect the cabs being made of chipboard, and if so, how did they stay in one piece? Were they glued and nailed or what? Chipboard is notorious for falling apart if it gets abuse. Might they have been more of an MDF (smaller density particleboard) than the rough chipboard we are more familiar with as e.g. later cabinet backs?
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Re: New Host, Founding Father of Marshall!!!!

Postby tommie on Sun Oct 25, 2009 12:56 pm

plen wrote:just sorting the link Peter... download/file.php?mode=view&id=1095
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Re: New Host, Founding Father of Marshall!!!!

Postby G3SDW on Sun Oct 25, 2009 1:13 pm

To me the whole thing stinks, it is a hotch potch of all sorts of things, prototypes were never like that all the main hardware stayed the same and went on to the first production types and as far as the wood is concerned well it was not chipboard as i am sure it was not available then and that goes for MDF we are talking about 1963, scratching my brain i am sure it was Plywood and joints were machined and glued dove tail.

I will leave you to draw your own conclusions.

Ken
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Re: New Host, Founding Father of Marshall!!!!

Postby plexi on Mon Oct 26, 2009 6:44 am

Well I've stayed out of this long thread for a long time. Looks like they are still picking your brain over crap form 47 years ago! it's a Joke. What wood or glue, This or that parts etc, It's amazing the junk people will ask about. Hey ken, What color shirt and jacket did you wear! ha ha ha. Just kidding. Really, You guys, Give him a break for God sakes. I swear I will close the thread.
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Re: New Host, Founding Father of Marshall!!!!

Postby G3SDW on Mon Oct 26, 2009 5:33 pm

Victor thanks for your concern and it has been great trying to answer all the question that have been asked of me and i also think that the answers that i have given have satisfied the askers.

I always have been polite as us Brits always have been known for our politeness but we have a saying over here and maybe over there too which is "I think that they need to get out more" LOL

As for the jacket and the shirt well i can`t remember LOL LOL

Ken
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Re: New Host, Founding Father of Marshall!!!!

Postby VikingOne on Tue Nov 10, 2009 4:09 pm

Hi Ken,

We all do need to get out more, but since we're in, we're here. :)

You obviously know the difference between RMS and peak power. How was the 45 watt rating of the early Marshalls determined? I know you said your test equipment was lacking but even at todays high line voltages that seems closer to a peak rating than RMS. If it was more of a marketing thing I gather you were not involved.

Thanks for being here.
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Re: New Host, Founding Father of Marshall!!!!

Postby G3SDW on Tue Nov 10, 2009 6:37 pm

Hi and here we go scratching the brain matter once again but that is a good thing.

The first tubes used were 6L6`s and the data was taken from the tech sheets available at the time.

As i have said in the past that things were very simple then but from simple things come great things, as for RMS well that has always been a marketing thing in Audio no matter what part of the world you live in.

It`s a pleasure being here so thanks for the thanks.

Regards

Ken
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Re: New Host, Founding Father of Marshall!!!!

Postby zaphod_phil on Thu Nov 12, 2009 12:12 am

VikingOne wrote: How was the 45 watt rating of the early Marshalls determined? I know you said your test equipment was lacking but even at todays high line voltages that seems closer to a peak rating than RMS.
G3SDW wrote:The first tubes used were 6L6`s and the data was taken from the tech sheets available at the time.

That makes sense. In fact, from the summary on http://tdsl.duncanamps.com/show.php?des=6L6GC we can see that a pair of 6L6s at 450V should be capable of producing 55W mean square power. For KT66s http://tdsl.duncanamps.com/show.php?des=KT66 shows 50W at 475V. So 45W even sounds a touch on the conservative side. I've read various places that these amps actually only put out 35W, but I'm somewhat skeptical. IMHO measuring clean power output is of limited value with guitar amps.
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